He said I made him into what I needed and that I was in his head and changed him. He said his head had been torn by others before by people forcing loyalty and that they were nothing in power compared to me.
( Jack remembers exactly what Castiel said because it got to him, so deeply. He's not going to forget those words any time soon. It felt like personal attack after personal attack, and while he intellectually doesn't think that is what Castiel was trying to do to a cruel level, it felt terrible. If others manipulated his mind, he's projecting, he is assuming the worst of Jack, and Jack is Lucifer's child who has done that to many people, of course he might think that he could be capable.
Jack drinks his water and looks down at it, setting it down and considering the next part before saying it. Because he knows that this opens some doors he doesn't want to entirely talk about, but it is relevant to his concerns.)
I was mad at you and Dean for lying to me, and I made the entire world stop lying by just saying so. It caused a lot of bad things. I didn't mean to hurt anyone.
( In Jack's mind at the time, lying was bad so it would be a good thing if no one could lie. Then they'd always tell the truth. But it was wrong to manipulate everyone's minds like that and he realized that after it happened, but at the time, all he'd been is angry and hurt. Castiel's fear of him is very real and Jack's fear of himself is also very real. He almost never means harm, but he still causes it.)
And I'm stronger now. Double what I was then. I don't know what I'm capable of. He said he thought he should kill me. I planned on dying to stop Chuck and I felt like that was okay, because maybe I shouldn't be alive at all.
( Sam can't help but sit up a little straighter at what Jack tells him, a chime of alert sounding in his nervous system without his say, because Jack's right: that's a lot more power than he had before. For the first time in years, his mind travels back to when Dean got him from Stanford and Sam's own powers began to develop. And for the first time, he looks at that situation from Dean's point of view, the balance of trepidation and fierce love his brother carried for him, watching Sam morph into something he might have to be afraid of, might have to hunt. It had to have felt at least something like this moment, precarious and unknown and chilling. If Jack really can manipulate others...
But what Jack says next tips the mental scale firmly in the direction of Sam's love - because he knows he loves Jack, he's felt like his kid for a while now, he's just never had the conviction to say it - because Sam has been on his side of this situation, too, and he knows exactly how dark that path can become if Jack follows it down. And Sam has to keep that from happening, no matter what else might happen to them. )
Hey. Look at me. This is important. ( Sam ducks his head a bit to match Jack's eyesight, making sure the kid is giving him his full attention. There's a thread of authority in his tone now, emerging from his worry, but he dampens the edge of it with quiet sincerity. ) I don't know everything you've done in your timeline, and I know people have gotten hurt. But whatever mistakes you've made aren't worth your life.
( What had gone so wrong in the future for them to decide that Jack's life was a sacrifice any of them were willing make? He can't dwell on that now, as much as the thought haunts him, so he keeps talking, hoping Jack will listen. He knows that in Jack's shoes, Sam would - did - react with disbelief and doubt, so he takes a breath and draws water from his own tainted, bloody well to make his position clear to Jack. ) And listen, I get it. I've... I've been there before. Thought that I could only make up for my wrongs by taking myself off the board. ( And he did. But it's that exact conclusion that terrifies him now; that's the last thing he wants Jack to do. ) But we're more than just the sum of our mistakes, Jack. I know it doesn't feel that way sometimes, but it's true. You don't have to prove yourself worthy enough to keep living. Do you understand?
( Some pleading slips into his voice towards the end, despite himself, because he knows more than anyone how it feels like to be an abomination. And he wouldn't wish that on anyone, but especially not Jack. But the idea of losing Jack fills him with a familiar terror, the same he's felt at the prospect of losing all his loved ones, so he has to be very clear about it. ) I don't care what this Castiel says about you. I know you, and I need you to trust me when I say we need you here.
Jack wants to tell him then about Mary just to spit it all out, the worst thing he ever did, but ( Sam from his time forgave him, and he doesn't know if he will again. Not without the experience of loving and losing Jack before that, which made it harder for him to swallow, hating the child he'd raised. Maybe in time he'll believe he can be honest and not lose the love he's clinging to, but he's not there yet. Castiel already hates him (in his mind).
He listens to Sam instead but there's uncertainty in his gaze. He wants to believe him but he's unsure if he should. He remembers when Sam told him that he understood what it was like to be him and he's bringing it up now too. To know that Sam also had feelings like this at some point is somewhat helpful, and maybe gives Jack some insight into why Sam so aggressively refused to listen to reason about him killing Chuck no matter what the cost. )
You're a good father, Sam, you always have been.
( Sam was his first real parent, because Castiel was dead when Jack was born. Sam took over for him for the start, and he treated him kindly and gently. Jack connected to him right away, and for him at least, he's always seen clearly the way he loves his parents. Even a complicated one like Dean. )
But this Castiel sees me as Dean sees me. And I've never thought that they were wrong.
( It hurt his feelings, obviously, Dean's hatred of him stung a great deal in those early days. Eventually they established a relationship, but he destroyed it with Mary. Still, he always rationally understood Dean's point of view, even as it upset him. Maybe not in the start, before he did anything bad, but later on, it became so clear. )
It's a very present concern that I'm three times an archangel now. I'm extremely dangerous. I'm doing my best to control it but I could be a threat to this world.
( Jack's words stop Sam in his tracks. He looks at him, frozen, eyes wide in a quiet kind of awe for a second. Jack called Sam his father. For a moment, that's the only thing that matters. Sam loves Jack, he's known that for a while now, maybe since Jack first disappeared on them and Sam tried everything to get him back. But he never thought he had the right to think of Jack as his kid, not when Jack chose Castiel to be his father, and Sam just happened to be the one willing to step up in his absence, defend Jack from Dean's accusations and try his best to help Jack navitage through the insanity of their lives. Hearing Jack actually call him his father, knowing he thinks of Sam that way, that's different. A different that, for once, isn't horrible or traumatic. The word 'father' knocks him off his feet, but it also warms his heart, and despite the mounds of bullshit they're dealing with, Sam just feels incredibly lucky.
But Jack keeps talking, so Sam pulls it together as best he can, shifting and letting out a small cough before focusing on Jack's concerns instead of his own feelings. Jack's worries aren't unfounded, and Sam doesn't have the answers to soothe them, doesn't even have a plan to help Jack feel a stronger sense of control. All he can really do is be here for him, and be the person who isn't afraid of him. And despite knowing Jack is more powerful than ever before, Sam really isn't afraid. Yes, things with Jack are complicated, but since when is anything in their family not? He knows Jack's a good kid, he always has. )
Well... ( Sam tilts his head thoughtfully, trying to put his thoughts into careful words. ) In a way, it's the same as when we met, right? I know you're more powerful, and you have every right to be concerned, but your powers are still yours, Jack. I think, like back then, the best thing we can do is what we've done before. Tread cautiously, but still use what we know to try to be the good guys. And I already know you can do that. ( Sam gives him a small, encouraging smile. ) I know that's not an answer, and I know it doesn't make the stuff with Cas any better. And you can always talk to me about any of it, you know that, right?
( Another time, Jack would have been perceptive enough to pick up on Sam's surprise and emotional journey related to him calling him father for the first time. By his time, Sam knows that he's Jack's father, and their relationship is incredibly strong. Stronger perhaps than any other bond that he has, Castiel included. But he is too upset at the moment to pay much attention to anything other than his own fear and suffering.
Castiel's hit upon one of Jack's greatest weaknesses: his fear of himself and what he can do. It's been there from the first day, and while he's managed to do great things with his powers, and protect people using them, it's such an uncontrollable problem. A part of him does wonder if Castiel is right. He could have manipulated his mind. It's within his powers. He keeps expecting this Castiel to love him so it's difficult to understand that he can't.)
I haven't always been the good guy, Sam. I haven't always made you proud. I was out of control for a while and you had to lock me away, which I was mad about then, but I knew afterward you were right.
( It's said casually but to be frank, it was anything but casual to Jack at the time. He doesn't hold it against Sam though, not now. He sees so clearly on the other side of it the point they had to make. Jack proved that fear correct. And now he sees himself climbing up past that.)
But we don't have anything like a ma'lak box here. If I go wrong again, who can stop me?
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rosecarmine
some suicidal-ish thoughts
Date: 2025-08-05 07:28 pm (UTC)( Jack remembers exactly what Castiel said because it got to him, so deeply. He's not going to forget those words any time soon. It felt like personal attack after personal attack, and while he intellectually doesn't think that is what Castiel was trying to do to a cruel level, it felt terrible. If others manipulated his mind, he's projecting, he is assuming the worst of Jack, and Jack is Lucifer's child who has done that to many people, of course he might think that he could be capable.
Jack drinks his water and looks down at it, setting it down and considering the next part before saying it. Because he knows that this opens some doors he doesn't want to entirely talk about, but it is relevant to his concerns.)
I was mad at you and Dean for lying to me, and I made the entire world stop lying by just saying so. It caused a lot of bad things. I didn't mean to hurt anyone.
( In Jack's mind at the time, lying was bad so it would be a good thing if no one could lie. Then they'd always tell the truth. But it was wrong to manipulate everyone's minds like that and he realized that after it happened, but at the time, all he'd been is angry and hurt. Castiel's fear of him is very real and Jack's fear of himself is also very real. He almost never means harm, but he still causes it.)
And I'm stronger now. Double what I was then. I don't know what I'm capable of. He said he thought he should kill me. I planned on dying to stop Chuck and I felt like that was okay, because maybe I shouldn't be alive at all.
cw more suicide talk
Date: 2025-08-05 08:40 pm (UTC)But what Jack says next tips the mental scale firmly in the direction of Sam's love - because he knows he loves Jack, he's felt like his kid for a while now, he's just never had the conviction to say it - because Sam has been on his side of this situation, too, and he knows exactly how dark that path can become if Jack follows it down. And Sam has to keep that from happening, no matter what else might happen to them. )
Hey. Look at me. This is important. ( Sam ducks his head a bit to match Jack's eyesight, making sure the kid is giving him his full attention. There's a thread of authority in his tone now, emerging from his worry, but he dampens the edge of it with quiet sincerity. ) I don't know everything you've done in your timeline, and I know people have gotten hurt. But whatever mistakes you've made aren't worth your life.
( What had gone so wrong in the future for them to decide that Jack's life was a sacrifice any of them were willing make? He can't dwell on that now, as much as the thought haunts him, so he keeps talking, hoping Jack will listen. He knows that in Jack's shoes, Sam would - did - react with disbelief and doubt, so he takes a breath and draws water from his own tainted, bloody well to make his position clear to Jack. ) And listen, I get it. I've... I've been there before. Thought that I could only make up for my wrongs by taking myself off the board. ( And he did. But it's that exact conclusion that terrifies him now; that's the last thing he wants Jack to do. ) But we're more than just the sum of our mistakes, Jack. I know it doesn't feel that way sometimes, but it's true. You don't have to prove yourself worthy enough to keep living. Do you understand?
( Some pleading slips into his voice towards the end, despite himself, because he knows more than anyone how it feels like to be an abomination. And he wouldn't wish that on anyone, but especially not Jack. But the idea of losing Jack fills him with a familiar terror, the same he's felt at the prospect of losing all his loved ones, so he has to be very clear about it. ) I don't care what this Castiel says about you. I know you, and I need you to trust me when I say we need you here.
(no subject)
Date: 2025-08-05 09:47 pm (UTC)He listens to Sam instead but there's uncertainty in his gaze. He wants to believe him but he's unsure if he should. He remembers when Sam told him that he understood what it was like to be him and he's bringing it up now too. To know that Sam also had feelings like this at some point is somewhat helpful, and maybe gives Jack some insight into why Sam so aggressively refused to listen to reason about him killing Chuck no matter what the cost. )
You're a good father, Sam, you always have been.
( Sam was his first real parent, because Castiel was dead when Jack was born. Sam took over for him for the start, and he treated him kindly and gently. Jack connected to him right away, and for him at least, he's always seen clearly the way he loves his parents. Even a complicated one like Dean. )
But this Castiel sees me as Dean sees me. And I've never thought that they were wrong.
( It hurt his feelings, obviously, Dean's hatred of him stung a great deal in those early days. Eventually they established a relationship, but he destroyed it with Mary. Still, he always rationally understood Dean's point of view, even as it upset him. Maybe not in the start, before he did anything bad, but later on, it became so clear. )
It's a very present concern that I'm three times an archangel now. I'm extremely dangerous. I'm doing my best to control it but I could be a threat to this world.
(no subject)
Date: 2025-08-17 09:24 pm (UTC)But Jack keeps talking, so Sam pulls it together as best he can, shifting and letting out a small cough before focusing on Jack's concerns instead of his own feelings. Jack's worries aren't unfounded, and Sam doesn't have the answers to soothe them, doesn't even have a plan to help Jack feel a stronger sense of control. All he can really do is be here for him, and be the person who isn't afraid of him. And despite knowing Jack is more powerful than ever before, Sam really isn't afraid. Yes, things with Jack are complicated, but since when is anything in their family not? He knows Jack's a good kid, he always has. )
Well... ( Sam tilts his head thoughtfully, trying to put his thoughts into careful words. ) In a way, it's the same as when we met, right? I know you're more powerful, and you have every right to be concerned, but your powers are still yours, Jack. I think, like back then, the best thing we can do is what we've done before. Tread cautiously, but still use what we know to try to be the good guys. And I already know you can do that. ( Sam gives him a small, encouraging smile. ) I know that's not an answer, and I know it doesn't make the stuff with Cas any better. And you can always talk to me about any of it, you know that, right?
(no subject)
Date: 2025-08-21 08:52 pm (UTC)Castiel's hit upon one of Jack's greatest weaknesses: his fear of himself and what he can do. It's been there from the first day, and while he's managed to do great things with his powers, and protect people using them, it's such an uncontrollable problem. A part of him does wonder if Castiel is right. He could have manipulated his mind. It's within his powers. He keeps expecting this Castiel to love him so it's difficult to understand that he can't.)
I haven't always been the good guy, Sam. I haven't always made you proud. I was out of control for a while and you had to lock me away, which I was mad about then, but I knew afterward you were right.
( It's said casually but to be frank, it was anything but casual to Jack at the time. He doesn't hold it against Sam though, not now. He sees so clearly on the other side of it the point they had to make. Jack proved that fear correct. And now he sees himself climbing up past that.)
But we don't have anything like a ma'lak box here. If I go wrong again, who can stop me?